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Author: Subject: [COPY] PS3 full info ! updated 25.9.2006.
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[*] posted on 18.5.2005 at 23:00


pa tako pishe na game spotu ps3 ima 7 ovih chuda.
i kojie je brzi i bolji?




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[*] posted on 18.5.2005 at 23:10


Quote:
Originally posted by [forsaken demon]
Quote:
Originally posted by driver
Najjache od svega ce biti kada PS3 bude podrzavao BT misha i tastaturu, pa ce i ono njihovo lozenje oko FPSova pasti u vodu...Poshto PS3 ima net browser "out of the box", moze se sa velikom verovatnocom reci da ce biti i misha i tastature....


Kreteni iz Microsofta su već najavili da će Xbox 360 podržavati miša i tastaturu, ali bez mogućnosti da se oni koriste u igrama.


Pa da, samo to nisam rachunao, PS3 ce to takodje imati sigurno, jer chemu bi sluzio integrisani browser...Bilo bi dobro da PS3 ukljuchi podrshku za tastaturu i misha u igrama, jer to bi znachilo kraj lozenju Xboxa shto se tiche FPSa...




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[*] posted on 18.5.2005 at 23:12


Quote:
Originally posted by ¤pikkon¤
pa tako pishe na game spotu ps3 ima 7 ovih chuda.
i kojie je brzi i bolji?


X360 ima tri procesora i 3 core-a, dok PS3 ima 1 procesor i 7 core-ova :) I jedni i drugi su u mogucnosti da rade 2 threada u isto vreme, shto znachi 6 vs 14 :) Dalje uzmi u obzir velichinu kesha kod jednog i drugog, a onda brzinu memorije, pa ce ti biti jasno da je PS3 ne brzi, nego da ga oduvava :)



[Edited on 18-5-2005 by driver]




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[*] posted on 18.5.2005 at 23:36


Samo da krenemo od toga kolika je duzina pajpova na procesoru koja utice na to da npr. amd-ovi procesori imaju manje ucestalu frekvenciju ali zbog kracih pajpova postizu na istoj frekvenciji rada daleko bolje rezultate od intela pa je jasno koliko je poredjenje potpuno drugacije arhitekture komplikovano- multicore xbox i cell procesora. Evo sta sam nasao na gamespotu gde se porede ps3 i xbox2( http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-15015-1985-4-5-x ) pa se nadam da ti nesto pomaze, mada realno ni sam sony nije predstavio cell do kraja :'
Sony has announced that the PlayStation 3 will have a 3.2GHz Cell processor that consists of a PowerPC-based core with seven synergistic processing units. The PS3 spec-sheet says that there's an eighth SPE reserved for redundancy--whatever that means. The Xbox 360, in comparison, has a multicore PowerPC processor that has three dual-threaded cores that can handle six total threads at a time. You might be able to call the Cell's SPE overgrown math units, but we think Sony's Cell processor wins from a brute power perspective."
Inace IBM je na E3 odrzao konferenciju prikazujuci cell procesor na kome nisu krili da je to najnaprednije sto oni prave a oni najbolje znaju sta su pravili:) Realno i na papiru a i po prikazanim demoima ps3 je bolji od xbox360. A sto se tice price da li su snimci ingame ili CGI po netu evo intervjua sa vodjom Guerilla tima kojistoji iza Killzone-a 2.Po ovome sto oni pricaju demo je sala u odnosu na ono sto nameravaju da ubace u igru!
link: http://uk.playstation.com/news/newsStory.jhtml?storyId=106796_en_GB...

Jan-Bart Van Beek is the Game Director of the PS3 Killzone at Guerrilla Games, and has spent the last few months working on the trailer that really blew the crowd away at Monday's PLAYSTATION 3 unveiling. After a second showing of the trailer at today's SCEE conference received another rapturous round of applause, we caught up with Jan to find out more.

How do you feel about the reaction to the trailer that was shown yesterday?

Jan-Bart: It's been an amazing reception, the rush you get from seeing your own stuff on the big screen like that, and then the reaction to it, it's a big rush, I'm really happy about it.

How long ago did work start on the sequence?

Jan-Bart: We started working on it in late November, and only finished it three days before the show, at the very, very last moment!

It seemed like Killzone, only more so! Is that what we can expect from the finished game?

Jan-Bart: We want to avoid having just Killzone with more beautiful graphics. We want to add a lot more to it than that. So we're adding a lot more character interaction, with the ways they respond to you and how you can react to them. There's a lot more interactions between characters like you see in the trailer, people dragging each other off out of combat and helping each other, giving each other their weapons - a lot more real human interaction, basically.

[Ben Duncan, the game's Producer] It's like with the Alfred Molina demo, the quality of facial animation we can get with the characters means you'll really feel that emotional sense of being part of a unit and fighting together. Characters working together, comrades pulling each other back from the field of battle; that kind of thing is really going to move the genre forward.

There's a great moment where you see an ISA ally take out a Helghan with his rifle butt to save your bacon... is that representative of the kind of sophisticated behaviour we'll start seeing in artificial intelligence when PS3 arrives?

Jan-Bart: Yes, totally, it's just the start. Characters will be very aware, very alert to how they might be able to help you. That moment [with the rifle butt] is a good example of how it can add a little visual 'wow' to it all.

Is the Killzone sequence a fair example of what people can expect from realtime gameplay on PLAYSTATION 3?

Jan-Bart: Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make.

Have you found PS3 easy to work with?

JB: Yes, we're really impressed with it. The Cell is amazingly powerful, and the graphics CPU [the RSX, co-developed with Nvidia] in there... it's actually hard to mimic it on our development PCs, we have to see it on the PS3 hardware itself. It's really nice to be working with such powerful hardware.

As yet, high definition TV isn't that widespread, especially in Europe - are you concerned that some players won't get to see your game in as much detail as is intended?

JB: No, I think in two, three years' time, HDTV will be a lot more accepted, in Europe too. We'll start out with 720p and then [onto 1080p] as there's now this product [PS3] that people will want to buy a new TV for.

Thanks, and congratulations on the work.

[Edited on 18-5-2005 by Kraken]
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[*] posted on 19.5.2005 at 01:06


Negde sam prochitao (mislim da je gamespot) da je sony zvanichno rekao kako je to real time, naravno ne gameplay. A IGN forum je pun dokaza, i neko je okachio video gde je prikazano kako se u sceni ispod mosta (ono kada se zapale oni ljudi), jedan vojnik na dzipu stvori sam od sebe, shto bi teshko moglo da se desi na prerenderovanom filmu, osim ako nije namerno.
Mislim da bi mnogo glupo bilo kada killzone 2 ne bi izgledao kada se pojavi kao ovo, jer ljudi ce zapamtiti shta su videli, taj trailer je neshto shto je podiglo vecu frku i hype od bilo kakvog demoa/previewa koji se do sada pojavio na konzolama ili PCu, tako da bi sony bio lud da se zeza sa tim...




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[*] posted on 19.5.2005 at 09:14


Kada se pogleda da je ps1 radio na 33MHz-a i imao 1 MB memorije na grafickoj a dva radne, PS2 300MHz-a 4mb graficke i 32 radne a PS3 3,2GHz-a i to cell procesor 256 XDR radne (najbrza memorija koja trenutno postoji na trzistu) i cak 256 ddr3 memorije za graficku mislim da je pravo pitanje- zar su ljudi ocekivali samo kozmeticke promene u odnosu na igre sa ps1 i ps2? Mislim da je MS debelo pogresio sto je za konzolu opet upotrebio standardnu pc arhitekturu.


Vezano za CELL-sad sam iscitao pdf fajl sa sonijevog sajta koji sadrzi tehnicke podatke i poenta u cell procesoru, koliko ja vidim iz ovoga, je to sto se sastoji iz jednog glavnog procesora sa 7 SPU (synergistic processing units) ali ono sto mi deluje najimpresivnije je da pored 512 drugostepenog kesa koji se vezuje za glavni procesor a SVAKI od sedam procesora ima svojih 256Kb memorije. Takodje sam nasao podatak da postoji i osmi SPE koji je po glasinama zaduzen ukoliko u procesu proizvodnje neki SPE nije dobro proizveden , da sluzi kao rezerva.

Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance : 218 GFLOPS

[Edited on 19-5-2005 by Kraken]
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[*] posted on 19.5.2005 at 14:29


Driver, racunaj da cu i ja uzeti taj DVD... samo zbig konferencja koje nisam uspeo da odgledam [ i hi res snimaka, naravno :D]



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"It is Microsoft. And I will kill them."
- Sony Computer Entertainment President and CEO Ken Kutaragi, asked in 1994 who he thought the biggest competition would be for his upcoming PlayStation game console.
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[*] posted on 19.5.2005 at 15:35


Driver, racunaj i na mene za DVD-E3!

Sony je najavio da ce PS3 izaci u prolece 2006. E sad, jel to znaci prvo za Japan, ili worldwide? Mislim da bi bilo stvarno smekerski od Sony-a da bude za ceo svet, ili barem sa malim zakasnjenem za USA i Evropu. :bounce:
Samo da ne bude kao za PS2 ili jos gore sa PSP-om...







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[*] posted on 19.5.2005 at 16:45


Kada izlazi u evropu ?
Ima da razbije Xbox 360
evo malo info-a
Nedugo nakon što je Microsoft otkrio svoje karte prikazavši Xbox 360, Sony je napravio isto. Na novinskoj konferenciji u Los Angelesu, PlayStation 3 sluzbeno je predstavljen javnosti.




Njegovo srce cini više puta spominjani procesor Cell koji su razvili IBM,

Sony i Toshiba - nije receno koliko Cellova ce biti u PS-u 3, no uredjaj moze sazvakati dva teraflopa što je duplo više od Xboxa 360.

Za grafiku se brine graficki cip kodnog imena RSX koji su razvili nVidija i SCE; osim naprednih grafickih efekata tu ce biti podrška i za HDTV, no nama to ionako puno ne znaci.

Za memorijski dio brine se XDR memorija koju "potpisuje" Rambus. Na zalost, sluzbene informacija o kolicini te memorije saznacemo tek nakon E3-a.

Zanimljivo je da ce se kao opticki pogon koristiti BD-ROM, koji je sposoban citati Blu-ray diskove s maksimalnim kapacitetom od 54 GB (dual layer).

Prvi primjerci PlayStationa 3 pojavice se u proljece sljedece godine u Japanu po za sada nepoznatoj cijeni.




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[*] posted on 19.5.2005 at 17:37


Quote:
Originally posted by Kraken
Takodje sam nasao podatak da postoji i osmi SPE koji je po glasinama zaduzen ukoliko u procesu proizvodnje neki SPE nije dobro proizveden , da sluzi kao rezerva.


Da, namerno su stavili 7 SPE, zbog procenta shkarta, pa ce tako znatno smanjiti proizvodnu cenu...
Shto se tiche kesha, na to malo ljudi obraca paznju, PS2 ima 1.8Mb L1 kesha u odnosu na 1Mb kod X360...




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[*] posted on 19.5.2005 at 17:41


Raideru jel si ti prochitao ovaj thread ? To su vesti od pre nedelju dana :)

@Zico: Ne verujem da ce PS3 izaci worldwide u isto vreme, niko to tako ne radi, ovo sa X360 je na silu, kao i sve shto je M$ uradio u vezi konzole. U USA ce izaci tamo jun/jul a u evropi za novu godinu, tako da shto se tiche HDTVa, vec ce ga dosta ljudi imati do tada.




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[*] posted on 19.5.2005 at 20:44


To ZICO:
Postoje glasine da ce izaci worldwide ali mislim da to pre svega zavisi ne toliko od prodaje xbox360 i ps2 koliko od prelaska izrade cell procesora na 65 nanometara jer je trenutna proizvodnja cell-a na 90 em skuplja em se procesor vise greje (samo treba videti uticnicu za kabl kod obe konzole pa se shvati koliko ce next gen gutati struje :( Ako se to ne desi do proleca nema sanse da ce sony razmisljati o world distribuciji. Treba samo videti psp koji opusteno u evropi izlazi u septembru ove godine pa videti da se sony ne opterecuje konkurencijom vec da ide svojim tempom.
To Driver:
Nigde nisam uspeo da nadjem oficijelnu specifikaciju prvostepenog kesa, ali 1MB za tri jezgra je realno malo. Takodje arhitektura procesora kod xbox i ps3 je potpuno razlicita tako da je pitanje kako ce ici pravljenje multiplatformskih igara jer ps3 sa svojim 7 SPU-a od kojih svaki radi na 3.2 GHz-a i koji su podredjeni glavnom procesoru je potpuno drugaciji od xbox360 sa svoja tri ravnopravna jezgra. Ali ono sto me odusevilo je sto je cell originalni proizvod dok je xbox opet konzolu bazirao na pc komponentama (dual core procesori do kraja ove godine za pc izlaze na trzistu) Inace koga zanima CELL moze da baci pogled na http://www.research.scea.com/ gde je odlicno ovbasnjen princip rada.

Inace vezano za pricu kako je ms prikazivao in-game a sony cgi treba baciti pogled na npr.http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2420&p=5 gde se vidi da na E3 nije postojao ukljuceni xbox360, samo parovi G5 koji su pokretali igre (a pravo je pitanje zasto ih ne pokretati na 360 ili jednostavno igre daleko sabilnije rade na dev. kitovima?)
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[*] posted on 19.5.2005 at 20:47


Evo linka cele ps3 E3 konferencije za dz.:
http://www.ps3-scene.org/2stream_sonypress_e305_hi.wmv
velicina oko 280 MB-a.
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[*] posted on 20.5.2005 at 00:16


@Kraken and driver

Znaci, jedno godinu i po dok izadje u Evropi, pa jos jedno godinu, da malo opadne cena i da se napravi odgovarajuci cip...mnogo je kume...
Ali sta da se radi, bolje da ne mislimo mnogo o trojci- brze ce nam proci vreme!
Nadam se da ne smaram mnogo o prognozi kada ce izaci PS3, sta da vam kazem- RAZVALIO me trailer za Killzone 2!







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[*] posted on 20.5.2005 at 00:30


Ajd kad ce izaci PS3 ali ko zna kada ce izaci KZ2 :lol:
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[*] posted on 20.5.2005 at 03:14


KZ2 trailer je po svemu sudeci CG, vecina ljudi sa igrackih sajtova tvrdi da je taj trailer CG. Takav nivo grafike se mozda moze izvuci iz PS3, ali tek posle jedno 3 godine analiziranja i rada sa PS3 hardverom, ali i tada je malo verovatno !



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[*] posted on 20.5.2005 at 09:15


ne, ja ostajem pri stavu da killzone 2 demo jeste real time... i have to believe that!



"There is but one path. We kill them all."
- Spartacus

"And when you show yourself to the world, it will be a different age than ours, Clark. A silver age of heroism, that will start when they look up into the sky at you with hope for tomorrow. You will help everyone to embrace it."
-Prophecy of Dr.Fate, Smallville S9

"It is Microsoft. And I will kill them."
- Sony Computer Entertainment President and CEO Ken Kutaragi, asked in 1994 who he thought the biggest competition would be for his upcoming PlayStation game console.
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[*] posted on 20.5.2005 at 10:02


Quote:
Originally posted by Grunt
KZ2 trailer je po svemu sudeci CG, vecina ljudi sa igrackih sajtova tvrdi da je taj trailer CG. Takav nivo grafike se mozda moze izvuci iz PS3, ali tek posle jedno 3 godine analiziranja i rada sa PS3 hardverom, ali i tada je malo verovatno !


Ako se i zanemari intervju sa Guerillom juce je iz X-play-a Morgan Webb radio intervju sa Phill Harrison-om (potpredsednik razvojnog odeljenja SCEE) i postavio mu je direktno pitanje:
Morgan: "Is it running to the playstation spec, or is it not running to the playstation spec?"
Phil: "Everything you saw on that tape, was either game engine or done to spec"
I verovao ili ne ovo je samo pocetak dok xbox360 vec gura gotovo ceo svoj potencijal (vest sam vostovao na http://www.emulationgalaxy.co.yu/emuforums/viewthread.php?tid=14681 )
Ono sto ja mislim da sony radi je da je prikazao UT demo in-game da bi omogucio epicu da prodaje svoj engine (vec su poceli prodaju) a da su se oni pitali ne bi nista ni prikazali nego bi pustili da svi pricaju o tome- da li je in-game ili nije. Vise na netu i forumima niko i ne pominje xbox2 i njegove seckave demoe, ili da je konzola predvidjena za pola godine a da MS nije bio u stanju da bilo sta pusti sa nje vec svi pricaju o KZ2 koga prati najveca medijska paznja da je postao najaktuelnija igra na ovom E3.
I tako ce ici sve negde do novembra dok ne budu imali gotove nivoe i kada ce na nekom sajmu (ja mislim da bas tada ima show u tokiju) prikazati in-game sa mogucnoscu igranja cisto da malo zeznu izlazak xbox360. Inace ko god da se iole razume u hardver i specifikacije obe konzole zna sta znaci cell cip a sta multicore jezgro i kolika je razlika u kesu/ sta znaci 256 ddr3 memorije za grafiku a sta 512 deljene izmedju procesora i GPU-a/ sta znaci ubaciti 256 XDR memorije u masinu i na kraju koja je razlika u blye ray i dvd-u. Sa onim sto sony ima moze mnogo da se uradi. Inace ne tako davno bilo je predstavljanje psp u japanu i mnogi su rekli da dzepna konzola ne moze da izgura wipeout pure i ridge racer a sada mogu da se kupe za ovu konzolu. Nije bas sony toliko retardiran da im potpredsednik izjavi nesto a da za godinu dana mora da trpi zezanje na sledecem E3 ako bi se ispostavilo da je lagao.
I za kraj nije samo KZ2 izgledao cudesno. Treba videti Heavenly Sword koji me odusevio jer lici na GOW, I-8 gde se po reakcijama lika vidi da je rec o real time ili tech-demo sa licem Alfreda Moline pa videti potencijale konzole i zasto je jos pre najave PS3 xbox360 nazivan xbox 1.5.
Nakon MTV i E3 znam da je MS uspeo da ubedi da kupim novi album Killers-a a sony da cekam PS3:lol:
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[*] posted on 20.5.2005 at 10:17


Quote:

I za kraj nije samo KZ2 izgledao cudesno. Treba videti Heavenly Sword koji me odusevio jer lici na GOW, I-8 gde se po reakcijama lika vidi da je rec o real time ili tech-demo sa licem Alfreda Moline pa videti potencijale konzole i zasto je jos pre najave PS3 xbox360 nazivan xbox 1.5.
Nakon MTV i E3 znam da je MS uspeo da ubedi da kupim novi album Killers-a a sony da cekam PS3:lol:


ne zaboravi MotorStorm... Preterano odradjena igra...




"There is but one path. We kill them all."
- Spartacus

"And when you show yourself to the world, it will be a different age than ours, Clark. A silver age of heroism, that will start when they look up into the sky at you with hope for tomorrow. You will help everyone to embrace it."
-Prophecy of Dr.Fate, Smallville S9

"It is Microsoft. And I will kill them."
- Sony Computer Entertainment President and CEO Ken Kutaragi, asked in 1994 who he thought the biggest competition would be for his upcoming PlayStation game console.
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[*] posted on 20.5.2005 at 10:41


Uh, tacno, mozda cak i najdopadljivija igra od svih prikazanih.
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[*] posted on 20.5.2005 at 10:59


Evo i linka sa intervjuom sa Phil Harrison-om gde objasnjava rad na prikazanim igrama.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9051
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[*] posted on 20.5.2005 at 12:32


Killzone je definitivno real-time, na IGN forumima (insider only) se non stop pojavljuju dokazi u vidu "glitch-a" u skriptovanju...Kada budem imao vremena, nakupicu sve pa cu postovati ovde, a ko ima hires moze da se uveri...
Skinuo sam juche jednosatnu emisiju sa IGNa (opet insider), gde ign i gamespot editori prichaju o utiscima, i ukratko je ovako. Nintendo nishta nije predstavio, i sve je u fazonu obecanja, "to ce da bude ovako a ovo cemo imati ovako". M$ ismejavaju za sve shto su uradili, od MTV, preko pres konferencije do playable demoa koje je nemoguce igrati zbog slabog frame ratea...Sve shto su za sony loshe rekli, je to da ne znaju nishta o online mogucnostima i da li ce stvarno HDD biti ukljuchen u cenu konzole. Ali, s obzirom da je tu browser, razne multimedijalne mogucnosti, nova HD IP kamera koja ce u kombinaciji sa PS3 moci da sluzi kao server (kao i stari eye-toy) i downloadable content, svi su u fazonu da moze da se kaze da ce HDD biti tu, a ako se ispostavi da cena bude 450$, HDD ce biti tu bez pogovora. Sony sada cheka da M$ objavi cenu konzole pa da vide shta se moze napraviti marketinshki shto se tiche "value for money" aspekta...Inache, Sony predstavljanje im je najvecu paznju odnelo, bilo je i neochekivano i jedini je Sony prikazao neshto shto je stvarno next-gen...
Shto se tiche chipova, x360 nema nikakvu prednost ni shto izlazi po celom svetu u isto vreme, jer chip nema veze sa regijom, vec sa launch-em konzole, koja je u ovom sluchaju samo 3-4 meseca razlike, i dok evropski sony izadje, moze lako da se desi da vec bude chipa...
Ja sam u svakom sluchaju spreman da importujem US PS3 i nabavljam originalne igre, a u to vreme mozda i ne budem u ovoj zemlji pa ce biti i lakshe, a i za jedan dobar HDTV :)




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Balance means EVERYTHING in a race (Naoki Hattori)
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driver
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[*] posted on 20.5.2005 at 12:37


E da, E3 DVD je vec pun, ali ako se neshto bude pojavilo u medjuvremenu vredno, izbacicu neki od filmova, poshto je u principu sve na press konferencijama, a ja te filmove imam i svaki odvojeno..



It aint about power dude! It\'s all about balance (Keiichi Tsuchiya)
Balance means EVERYTHING in a race (Naoki Hattori)
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[*] posted on 20.5.2005 at 14:22


Quote:
Originally posted by driver
E da, E3 DVD je vec pun, ali ako se neshto bude pojavilo u medjuvremenu vredno, izbacicu neki od filmova, poshto je u principu sve na press konferencijama, a ja te filmove imam i svaki odvojeno..


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[*] posted on 20.5.2005 at 16:50


PS3 u svakom segmentu nadmasuje predstavljeni xbox2, od velikih stvari kao sto su procesor, memorija, graficka, blue ray (ako niste znali tdk je predstavio blue ray disk sa 100gb-a kapaciteta ) pa do dva izlaza za hdtv ili obican tv i hdtv, blue tooth kontrolera, prijema tri vrste memoriskih kartica, wifi... Ali najveca sony-jeva prednost je u tome sto najveci deo ps3 ce sama proizvoditi i najveci deo standarda ima u svom vlasnistvu tako da ce proizvodnja konzole sony izaci daleko jeftinije nego sto bi MS kada bi je on pravio.
Ocekujem da ce ps3 imati identicnu cenu kao xbox360 a verujem da ce MS morati prvi da izadje sa vecom cenom za svoju konzolu. Sto se mene tice necu uzeti ps3 pre nego sto izadje ili MGS4 ili FFXIII jer su i square i Kojima veoma profesionalni i sa njima ocekujem da pocne talas kvalitetnih naslova kada se razvojni timovi upoznaju sa programiranjem na novoj konzoli (a i dok sony procisti bubice koje se uvek pojavljuju u prvim serijama konzola). Tako sam uradio i za ps2 i nisam se pokajao *grin*
A sto se tice samog kvaliteta ps3 naspram xbox360 mene vise zanima line-up igara koje su najavljene i to sto ni jedan od naslova koji volim da igram nije presao na xbox pa da moram da kupujem dve konzole. Verujem da su snagom PS3 najvise pogodjeni bivsi vlasnici pc-ja koji su jedva progutali to sto su presli na konzolu pa su se tesili kako xbox makar ima pc arhitekturu i poreklo, multimedijalne opcije, internet pretrazivac i naravno to sto je najsnaznija konzola i ima graficki najkvalitetniji fps. Sada kada je prikazan KZ2 nisu mogli da podnesu sto ce ono sto su smatrali decijom konzolom imati daleko kvalitetniju grafiku, a to verujem jer je bilo jos isto tako impresivnih demoa ali ih niko ni ne pominje jer nisu fps-ovi u pitanju.
Mene je vise odusevilo to sto ce ps3 konacno imati misa pa cu moci da i ifgram KZ2 kao covek nego sto ce izaci tako graficki kvalitetan naslov.
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